YouTube link here. I think there were some kitty appearances, but I wasn’t paying attention.
This week, William has something he wants to talk about. And it’s interesting. So we talk about it. And talk about how we want YOU to talk about it. Then the rest of the time is taken up by Tony, and there’s no emails, because Tony needs to tell you about one of the most important pieces of cinema for our times! Enjoy!
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Interesting conversation about reading/viewing.
When I read, it is never like I’m watching a movie–that is, I don’t see or hear what’s going on in the story inside my head. I also am not aware of the words as words, most of the time. I read pretty fast and it’s more like I have the concept of what happened or what’s being described in my head rather than the words.
Something I appreciate about studying literature is that it forced me to slow down and really pay attention to wording when I’m analyzing something.
When I’m watching things, I’m more aware of the way something is constructed than when I’m reading. But in both cases, I can get very wrapped up in stories. When I was about 3 or 4, I wound up locked up in the grocery store that was part of the shopping area where our carnival was playing because I was in the corner of the magazine rack reading comics and didn’t notice that people were leaving.
The idea that first-person is relatively new to novels seemed odd to me at first, but then I realized that this probably depends on how one is defining “novel.” Like, if “The Satyricon” is a novel, then it makes sense ’cause first-person really only takes off in a big way after the Enlightenment (not coincidentally), although, Chaucer took a big step in that direction by having unreliable narrators tell stories in poems like “The Canterbury Tales.” But I had always heard the term novel applied only to those pieces of fictional prose which began around the 18th century–“Robinson Crusoe,” “Pamela,” “Clarissa,” “Moll Flanders”–that sort of thing. I think the distinction is that you start to really get a stronger sense of an inner psychology of character in conflict with their outer environment in those texts. Relatedly, I heard an interview with someone who was translating “The Iliad” who said that the Ancient Greeks tended to express emotions in physical terms rather than as inner, mental states. It sometimes makes me wonder if people’s thought processes are different depending on how their culture imagines “thinking” takes place.
For me, third-person has more the sense of someone telling me a story than first-person does. Third-person has more of that “once upon a time” feeling.
All I can say to this is 🙂
🙂
The way you describe reading sounds a lot like I’ve heard other people speak of it when they’ve studied speed reading techniques. Or also in people who do “light reading.” I used to be a bit envious, because my brain won’t let me not focus on every tiny morsel. But now that I’m not in school or anything, I think I like how I do it. Maybe.
The “novel” thing came from someone else, as I said. It made sense in the moment, but I definitely didn’t get any sort of credentials in literature, so I defer to the experts. 😉
So if third person seems most like telling a story to you, what does first person seem like?
Yeah, someone in my Junior High did a special program on speed reading and I thought, but that’s just the way I already read.
Sometimes I think this influenced my choice to specialize in Victorian fiction–’cause with shorter novels, I feel like I don’t get to spend as much time with the characters as I want to. And it’s what I appreciate about trilogies or long-running series.
First person feels more like the thoughts are running through my head–like these are my thoughts, not a character’s thoughts.
That got me thinking about the question of when I first read something in first-person, and I think it might be quite late. That might be an interesting question for everyone to answer on the blog–maybe more in terms of what were the main stories that influenced you at particular ages.
0-5: Dr. Seuss: The Just So Stories; Winnie-the-Pooh, Little Women, and Romeo & Juliet (my grand-mother used to read this with me–she had been an actress when very young).
Elementary School: Lots of adventure stories–Robin Hood. The Three Musketeers, The Black Arrow. Greek & Norse Mythologies. Also lots of books that my cousin and I both liked reading and then pretending to be the characters–The Borrowers series, and there were a whole series of books about twins in different period/cultures by Lucy Fitch Perkins.
Junior High: The Dr. Dolittle books (I still love these); A Wrinkle in Time; The Narnia stories. And I read my first “grown-up” book–Nine Stories by Salinger and that got me reading all the Salinger books. The librarian at the county library pointed me toward sci-fi when I had read all the mythology books. These were mostly short-stories. I particular remember one by Damon Knight about how alien tourists buy weird things like cow patties, and then how this affects the economy. I stumbled onto Star Trek at this time. The first episodes I watched–The Menagerie and Shore Leave–gave me a somewhat slanted view of what the series was like.
High School: Lord of the Rings and Bored of the Rings; and lots of coming-of-age stuff–Look Homeward Angel, Portrait of the Artist, David Copperfield. That’s the first, first-person narrator story I can remember. And lots of playwrights–Wilde & Shaw, Tennessee Williams, Sartre.
I forgot something.
When I was in elementary school, my Dad bought the World Book Encyclopedia and there were two supplements for kids. One was a series of biographical stories. I particularly remember the ones on Gandhi and Lincoln. And then there were excerpts/introductions to works of fiction and I think that’s how I first read part of The Hobbit.
This is awesome! None of this matches up with how I read, or also what I read at those ages. Very interesting.
Some of the reading choices were clearly influenced by those around you… and I guess mine were too, in a lot of cases. Hmm… this is very interesting to me, for some reason.
Me, too!
What was your reading like?
I know a difference I noticed when Pete was growing up was that there was just a much bigger market for Children’s Lit. I don’t think there was when I was a kid. So I wound up reading a lot of “classics.” I forgot to mention Alice in Wonderland, Peter Pan, The Wind in the Willows (and other Kenneth Graham stories), The Jungle Book, The Water Babies, The Secret Garden (and so on). And Hiawatha when I was very little ’cause that’s the first person I dressed up as for Halloween (I was 4, maybe?). And Robin Hood when I was 5, but that was from the movie, not the book.
Can’t reply all the way down to Jas’s last comment, so I’m putting it here.
My reading as a young person had three major influences:
1. Newberry Award Winners. I had to, because in fifth and sixth grade, the reading program I was in was all about reading Newberrys (Newburrys?) .
2. My third grade teacher got me in to fantasy series. Specifically, Chronicles of Narnia, Chronicles of Prydain, and The Dark is Rising series. Yes, I know there’s a lot of Newberry books in there too.
3. My sister read a ton of fantasy novels. So I quickly jumped into adult fantasy. In fourth grade, I got into Dragonlance. Fifth grade, the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever. Sixth grade, Sword of Shannara.
The middle school I discovered some Piers Anthony, which had lots of nudity, so I loved that. But mostly just adult fantasy novels from then on.
I feel like I do both read words and visualize story as a movie in my head, but I only really remember movie over all and I really only hold on to really good quotes. Even I usually have to look them up later
I’m still waiting on that $3.50
Movies and TV I tend to take apart mechanically, I’m really good at taking apart the structure of things and seeing how it well twist or end.
I wrote Hasbro lab selfie series in my quick notes of what to reply but I don’t know why. I’ll just write in about it.
Also when consuming media, I tend to attach myself to a character I identify as and experience the story with them. Rarely is this the main character. Maybe another good topic to write in on.
Hasbro Lab Selfie Series is the name of the new nerdcore band I’m putting together. We still need someone on bass. You interested? 🙂
I’ve often heard people talking about identifying with a particular character in a story, and seeing it through them. And of course, I can usually spot who the POV character is supposed to be for the audience (not always the protagonist). But I don’t think I’ve much experienced what you’re talking about. And… I have no real clue why. Characters are always just external people, as though maybe friends? And the bad ones are people I really need to stop hanging out with, I guess. 🙂
Loch Ness Monster!!
https://youtu.be/k-GvQ2uJBOA
As everyone knows, if someone carries a lot of singles they either wait tables, strip, or they’re the Loch Ness Monster.
I must be the Loch Ness Monster in my sleep!
😀
This is a reply to Tony’s last comment.
That’s interesting that you found a genre that was really “your thing” so young. I remember you having mentioned before that your 3rd grade teacher introduced you to fantasy, but I hadn’t realized it was pretty much the main thing you read.
Also, I know that your sibs are quite a bit older than you are, so it makes sense that your sister’s reading of adult fantasy was a big influence.
What do you think it was about fantasy that made it your thing (so to speak)?
I think a notable thing that was lacking as an influence on my reading was school or teachers. That speaks to how bad the school system was.
In fact I got into trouble in elementary school for taking out books that were “beyond my grade level”–so not incredibly supportive of reading.
The biggest influence for me was my family. And, as you can tell from that story about the grocery store, I also got encouragement to go out and find things to read on my own. In elementary school, I remember having a fairly standard Saturday schedule of going to ballet class and then having my Mom drop me at the library for the rest of the day.
I mean, there was always some fantasy stuff around with my family. My sister’s books had cool covers, and she had neat posters. I can’t remember a time I wasn’t into sword and sorcery type stuff.
And my best friend got a copy of the D&D red box when I was six, so we jumped into that. And I loved the D&D Saturday morning cartoon. It was just always my thing. In fact, I think it’s more that my love of fantasy made my teacher reach out than that her reaching out gave me a love of fantasy.
Sci-fi was always at the fringes, but I’d say it didn’t become what it is to me now until much, much later. Maybe my 20s or 30s. Now, gun to my head, it’s a preferred genre to me than fantasy. But I’m also very in to mixing the two, and see the line between them is much blurrier than I used to think.
My husband tells me Little Women was considered 12th grade reading at his grade school (and was the lynch pin in his decision to purposely fail the reading tests in ~4th grade so he could get back into literature with stories he personally wanted to read), so to be reading Little Women in ages 0-5 seems super advanced. Way to go jas!
I read a lot of American Girl, Little House, Baby Sitters Club, and Sweet Valley Kids/Twins (but not much High, the one I read felt too racy for me in elementary school). Our school library was VERY limited, I remember I liked these books about aliterative fruits and vegetables like Lucy Lemon and Spud. Our school library required us to take out one book and if you were late in returning it, got charged a fine. So I’d get my one super-easy read book that was well below my grade level, usually finish it before I walked back to the classroom, and immediately deposit it in the library returns box so I wouldn’t be late. Also not a great way to encourage a love of reading.
My mom’s take on what it takes to be a Newberry award winner is to be a book about a kid without parents. Sign of the Beaver and Hatchet come to mind. To me, they mostly seemed like young boys without parents, which was a whole lot of life experience that I didn’t relate to. I remember reading the Outsiders for class in junior high and being discouraged that within the book, they were reading Gone with the Wind (which I was reading for pleasure during silent reading time) and the characters in the book, with nothing else to do but read this book while they were hiding out, didn’t finish it within a week. Going into 8th grade and again going into high school, Animal Farm was required reading – I still hate that book. I might have found it more interesting if there had then been a discussion of the symbolism or really, about the book at all, but that didn’t happen and it didn’t make much sense to me on either read. I’m not great at symbolism in books, I want people to tell me what’s going on and how they’re feeling and not be left up to me to figure it out.
When I read, I try to visualize what’s happening, but I’m still very conscious of reading the words. It helps if there are a few pictures (like in the Little House or American Girl books) or a movie I’ve previously seen so I can expand on the story using the characters and setting that I’ve already seen. I CAN visualize by myself, but it’s harder.
I feel our podcast might be racier than Sweet Valley High. So… be careful.
As always very behind but with regards the book – I actually paid for it via the Kobo store rather than get it for free on smashwords. I enjoyed it and am looking forward to the next one. There were a couple of things I saw coming and actually I think the cover image has a pretty big spoiler in it if you know the genre.
I knew you bought it! You became my favorite listener cuz of it! Maybe that comes up in an episode you haven’t reached yet.
What spoiler? Though I suppose you shouldn’t say here. But I can only think of one spoiler, and it’s a spoiler for the…. first sentence?
You don’t have a private email for me, do you, Craig? Nor I you. I guess you could DM me on Twitter. I’m very curious. 🙂
I have now reached that episode. I’m currently laid up with COVID (boo!) so using the time to catch up on podcasts.
No, I don’t have an email for you but you’ve got mine – I’ve only been using it to send emails to the hat for over a decade!