Episode 166 : The Greatest Story Never Told…

Basically, William fixes everything that modern film is ruining about Wonder Woman. That’s pretty much the whole show. Enjoy!


Dear William and Tony, What is your favorite single line from a book you’ve read?            –Mark McKibben


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13 Responses to Episode 166 : The Greatest Story Never Told…

  1. jas says:

    Tony to William: “You must learn to release that which you cannot change, young padewan.”

  2. jas says:

    I can’t speak for “Madmen” but the description of “Game of Thrones” as a world that starts out in misogyny and some women are fighting back against it isn’t really accurate.

    This is not to say that the tv show doesn’t have sexist elements, but overall I would say that those crop up as individual things rather than being fundamental to the show. I also have found that the show overall seems to “help” not only in it’s depiction of female characters generally, but when those sexist moments occur there are some pretty interesting discussions that crop up about them (and yes some troll dreck that one has to wade through as well).

    And it is a show where half the cast is female and they are not playing stereotypes.

    • jas says:

      Thinking about it a bit more, the sexist elements on GoT tend to crop up with particular writers/directors, and disappear with others.

  3. jas says:

    Will, I’m not sure what you meant by having stories that start with equality (versus what we have now), because even in your description of Wonder Woman I would assume that one of the things that Wonder Woman has decided to come help out with (and would get snarky about) is that there isn’t equality in the world.

    If in fact, that’s what you meant by social activism, then (although there are degrees of difference in what the stories are about), I don’t see the big contrast between what you’re describing and something like GoT.

    • William says:

      Well, to begin with, I wasn’t really criticizing either Madmen or Game of Thrones. Given that I know so little about them (I’ve only seen a couple episodes of each) I can only go off what I’ve read in terms of how they’re perceived as feminist or not feminist, depending upon who you ask. I don’t know enough to have an opinion about it one way or the other. But whether they’re feminist, not feminist, or if the whole question is misplaced, it’s all way outside the point I was trying to make, so… probably a bad decision for me to even have brought them up. 🙂 To any fans of these shows that I offended, my apologies.

      My comment about how we ought to have shows that start with equality was really in reference specifically to Batman: the Brave and the Bold and other shows like it that CAN be gender-equal if the creators just put in the effort. I wasn’t suggesting that we shouldn’t have any shows that are skewed to one gender or that are satirical about gender roles or that present gender discrimination realistically. My point was that we do have plenty of those other kinds of shows with not very many where the genders are equally and progressively represented, even when some shows (like B:BB) could easy be that if they tried. Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD is a good example of a show where the creators could have gender parity and so they went ahead and had it. I see no reason why more shows and movies couldn’t do the same (without us having to get rid of the ones that aren’t, can’t be, or shouldn’t be gender-equal).

      Obviously, in my opinion, a Wonder Woman origin story is better left as an expressly feminist story, although I think her character type need not conform to gender stereotypes the way even the earliest comic book portrayals of her did. I don’t think a Wonder Woman origin story is in the same category as B:BB or SHIELD… challenging gender inequality is part of who Wonder Woman is.

      That said, I actually didn’t think of her social activism as something that would focus on inequality directly. I imagined her being snarky about the food people eat in the US and how people depend on big governments and big businesses for things that they could get from their local communities and how people seem to think being a wage slave is their only option in life. Where she addresses inequality directly, I imagine her being more serious and, in some cases, more angry.

      • jas says:

        Just to clarify one thing I said, when I said “I would assume that one of the things that Wonder Woman has decided to come help out with (and would get snarky about) is that there isn’t equality in the world”–by referring to inequality in the world I meant all the things you mentioned including gender (but also other forms of inequality).

        What I’m still confused by is your saying that there are enough shows that present gender discrimination realistically. Are you saying there need to be more shows in which the world the characters inhabit has no gender discrimination? There need to be more shows about Utopias? I don’t think that’s what you mean, but I don’t understand the description “present gender discrimination realistically.” And actually I think there are very few shows that present gender discrimination realistically and there probably need to be more of them.

        • William says:

          Re: “shows that present gender discrimination realistically”, I just meant shows that show things the way they are or the way they were. And I agree, there should be more of them also.

          I don’t think gender parity is all one needs to achieve utopia! 🙂 But, no, I didn’t mean utopia. I meant like what Agents of SHIELD has done. Many people might not even notice that there are as many speaking parts for women as men on that show. And the show isn’t perfect in terms of how it treats gender. But for so many shows there’s no real excuse not to at least have women equitably represented, whatever else they get right or wrong about gender representation.

          • jas says:

            OK, well we’re not talking about the same thing then, because equitable versus inequitable representation on the show says something about the gender discrimination of the world that’s producing the show, and realistic/unrealistic representations of gender discrimination are about the created world of the show. And in the case of the latter, it would be really hard to say what unrealistic representation means out of context–does it mean the show is representing a hoped for ideal, or is it pretending that discrimination doesn’t exist (or some other option–I’m sure there are others).

      • jas says:

        Oh, and BTW, not offended about GoT, but confused.

  4. jas says:

    Most of the comics I read were of that period mostly ’cause I wasn’t allowed to buy comics, so I would read them at my neighbors house and he bout them in huge stacks at used comics places.

  5. jas says:

    “By which I mean Jas.” I want an emoticon that laughs and sticks its tongue out at the same time.

  6. jas says:

    There are so many great lines from book, but I’m pretty sure I couldn’t come up with one without looking it up.

    Here’s a good Dresden one: “My gast was pretty well flabbered.”

  7. Mark says:

    Peter’s Doughnuts? Not sure if I’m missing a reference there, but I do now have a strong craving for doughnuts; so thanks for that.

    Loud noises: Alas, no purring cats can be heard in this podcast.

    Batman – the Brave and the Bold: I think the biggest flaw in this version of Batman; is they don’t use Kevin Conroy as the voice of Batman. Given how many other animated shows with Batman due use Mr. Conroy; it’s weird to hear somebody else giving voice to the character.

    Regan/Raygun Gothic: Now that Tony’s said that I can’t help but picturing somebody cosplaying as a Steampunk Ronald Regan.

    The Force: How is an energy field that touches everything not magic?

    Capt. Planet: What a terrible cartoon that was.

    Fan-Fiction: It’s technically an illegal use of somebody else’s copyrighted works. Provided you don’t charge anything for it; many authors don’t seem to mind. As an example, here’s John Scalzi’s policy on fan fiction.

    Die hard Wonder Woman fan? Ehhh, not so sure about that but I do remember watching/enjoying the Lynda Carter show when I was a kid.


    Profound lines? Eh, if the line was really all that and a bag of chips; you would have remembered it.

    Audio vs printed books: I rarely choose to go with an audiobook; as even if the narrator does a good job, I find it takes me far, far longer to get through a book when I’m listening vs. reading.

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